Current state of the church in America

**imported_juggernaut28** · February 8th, 2008, 11:27 PM

When King David sinned against God, he HAD to repent of his sins. God had sent a prophet to King David to tell him a story about a man who had turned away from God. King David was that man and he knew that he had walked away from God because of the worldly sins he was committing. Why if King David had already accepted God once, why did he even repent again. If once in grace always in grace is true, then why did David even repent?
I believe, if King David ignored the warning from the prophet and just sent him on his way then King David would have died lost. Solomon was another man who walked away from Christ at one time.
Then there were 12 disciples that walked with Jesus. When Jesus accended to heaven he prayed to the Father saying I have kept all those you gave me, save one, who fell into perdition. Which was Judas.

Proverbs 14:14 Talks about backsliding
"The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself."

One can fall from Grace, that is what Satan is trying to get even the very elect to do through trials we face everyday.

**imported_ut1** · February 8th, 2008, 11:45 PM

Ah, but you no longer have freewill if you have surrendered your life to Christ. He now owns you, and justifiably so. That's why Paul taught so much about "denying self", and reminding us of our human weakness: [For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.] Romans 7:14-21 (KJV) Paul's words should be proof enough that no matter how good a Christian you become, sin is still going to be ever present. How much sin does it take for a Christian to lose their salvation?

Have you ever seen anything deader than a backsliding Christian? They're miserable and don't know why. They find themselves wallowing with the pigs. They have "lost" their way, but the fact remains they are still Christians. When they realize and acknowledge their folly, as this young man did, then reconciliation has already begun. A backsliding Christian is also "dead" as far as Kingdom work goes, and can only be useful when they are "alive".

I've known quite a few folks who believed you could lose your salvation, only to suddenly have a light come on and see this deep truth. Some of them preachers, others preachers' kids who had grown up on that doctrine. I believed that myself when I was first saved, but many years of study and devotion led me to believe that Salvation is Eternal. If I believed that I could lose my salvation, then I don't think I could ever set foot in a church again. What would be the point?

The bottom line is, He owns me, therefore I serve.

"No man is able to pluck them out of my hand."

**imported_ut1** · February 8th, 2008, 11:55 PM

King David and Solomon were both pre-Christ, so they technically could not be called "Christians". Jesus forever changed the relationship between God and man. The people of Old Testament times didn't have the Holy Spirit inside of them to guide them. While they needed a priest as intercessor with God, we need no one. Jesus restored us so that we can talk to God just as Adam and Eve did before their fall, because He walks with us daily as the Holy Spirit.

**1inStripes** · February 8th, 2008, 11:59 PM

We just have two different interpretations. Unfortunately to many, they feel as though they have been saved, and because of that they do not have to set foot in church again or accept his teachings, and commandments.

I respect you a ton, and you know that, but this is an area where I guess we will always differ.

"Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils".

**imported_ut1** · February 9th, 2008, 09:39 AM

Agreed. Many of my friends hold the same belief as you. That doesn't diminish my love or respect for them. That is why we are instructed to "work out our salvation" in Philipians. That is, to stand on what we believe, knowing that God stands with us.
I hope we don't always differ on this, as I think a Christian misses the full joy of Salvation by thinking it is something that can be lost. Just my opinion. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

**1inStripes** · February 9th, 2008, 12:15 PM

I hope we don't either, but alas I feel like the same as you just the other way around. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

**centennialdawg** · February 9th, 2008, 06:12 PM

Hey, we agree on the main thing and that is salvation comes through the Lord, Jesus Christ.

**plantsman** · February 26th, 2008, 08:53 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agreed. Many of my friends hold the same belief as you. That doesn't diminish my love or respect for them. That is why we are instructed to "work out our salvation" in Philipians. That is, to stand on what we believe, knowing that God stands with us.
I hope we don't always differ on this, as I think a Christian misses the full joy of Salvation by thinking it is something that can be lost. Just my opinion. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] </div></div>

I understand what you're saying concerning the joy of salvation. However, I am concerned that, via your opinion, an individual can think he is saved once and for all, and can continue to live a life that is unscriptural - Bonhoeffer called this cheap grace. So, a question: If once saved/always saved, what limits the individual from continuing in his transgressions? Not to be argumentative, but I would genuinely like to know. Thanks.

**vikescoach** · March 4th, 2008, 07:29 PM

Going to church is not what provides your salvation, but is an integral part of the life of a born again Christian. The church is supposed to be a pillar of support for you and help develop you as a Christian. That doesn't mean that you rely on the church for everything, you must grow and develop on your own as well with daily prayer and bible studying.

**plantsman** · March 4th, 2008, 08:01 PM

I believe that "churchianity" has replaced Christianity throughout the U.S and in the minds of most believers. Go to "church", particapte in their activities, contribute to their causes, etc. Church isn't a building...it's an organic, dynamic concept that requires no building, no paid clergy, etc. It isn't a spectator sport, as most in America believe. Anyway...